When listening, it feels as though Frankie Cosmos, the musical project through which Greta Kline and her band have been releasing shyly impactful indie/pop for about a decade, knows you. 

As though there is some cosmic emotional synchronization between the narratives expressed within the music, and the crushes, dogs, misfortunes, and happy inexplicability of your own life, Frankie Cosmos’ concise, even minimalistic lyricism and compositions cut through to the most earnest bits of you. Uncomplicated and without drawing too much attention, the group makes music quietly, but with a vulnerability and endearment that distinguishes them from their contemporaries within the often-too-mushy indie/pop scene.

Like diary entries, or impassioned love letters with strict word counts, Frankie Cosmos’ style is simple, direct, honest, and is comfortable not knowing exactly what that feeling is or why it is, as long as it is being felt and expressed. It is music that endears itself, exposes itself, and does its best for you.

Last weekend, while touring their acclaimed 2022 album, Inner World Peace, we met Greta and Frankie Cosmos' very charming drummer, Cameron Wisch, in the artist catering area backstage at Kilby Block Party in Salt Lake City, Utah. As has become an amateurish but standard practice, I flicked on the recorder a couple of minutes into the convo, so that is where we pick up. 

-because I feel a bit old and we are around the same age, can you repeat what you just said? 

Oh , yeah, I was just saying that me and Alex G are becoming aging indie musicians. Hey, Cameron!

Hey, Cameron! Do you feel like an aging indie musician?

Cameron: I’d say that’s accurate. 

Greta: It’s a nineteen year old’s game. 

But I don’t know a lot of nineteen year old indie stars. Everyone in this catering area is our age, I reckon. 

I just mean the people that get signed are often that young. They call it your ‘Sophomore effort’ which implies that you only get four tries at something - your freshman, sophomore, junior, and senior album - before you age out. I think that, especially for women, the older you get, the less interested people are in hearing what you have to say.

How have you been feeling about the crowds you’re playing to on this tour?

I loved them! I have this weird thing where I’ve reached these youngsters because I had a song go viral on TikTok. I had a song in a cartoon, someone made a TikTok within the fandom of that cartoon show, Hilda, and that became a trend, so all of these kids now know Frankie Cosmos from that. Well, they only know the one song, Fool. It’s really nice, though, that they want to see us play. 

Right…. Hmm.

Cameron: Does that irk you a little bit? 

Mmmm I don’t think it irks me - I dunno…

Yeah, as someone who runs an actual magazine which is the opposite of TikTok, what do you think about TikTok? 

I think that I’m too old for it so I don’t understand it. 

I think it is one of the cringiest things, I don’t have one. 

I talked to Lindsay Jordan (Snail Mail) about this for a long time. I’m not annoyed by it but I am concerned about it in regard to music, because I’ve spoken to people who have TikTok hits and they’ll sell out a show, but once they play that song, everyone leaves. Like, does that really count as a fan? 

Greta: That isn’t an experience I’ve had yet. This is my first tour since Covid, and the song went ‘viral’ in I think January 2021? So this is my first time witnessing the effects. Do you notice a different vibe during that song?

Cameron: Oh, yeah, absolutely. I think you already have a built in audience of people who’ve been following the music for so long, so those fans will continue to be there and the TikTok fans will either keep being fans or sort of drift off, but they don’t make up the majority. 

Greta: And I welcome them, I’m grateful for them. Not to toot my own horn but I think that when people like our music, it’s because they feel it and have an emotional connection. We don’t attract a lot of shitty bros that are there for the pit, and nobody is liking Frankie Cosmos because it’s cool anymore. 

Was that a weird time for you? 

It was really intense. We had a huge boom like ten years ago with a Best New Music from Pitchfork and a handful of sold out tours, and then that extreme level of hype eventually evens out. The people coming to see us on tours became more invested fans, as opposed to people checking out what’s trendy. Like, someone came up to me yesterday and said that this was their seventh time seeing me, and I love that. That’s someone who wants to have a long-term relationship with an artist, and I’m that way, too. Like, I love The Strokes, I listened to them in the seventh grade, and I still love it. 

Oh, man, love The Strokes. Excited to see them play tomorrow. Love their new album, too. Well, ‘new’. It’s like three years old. 

Sure, but that is new to me! What’s fucked up about this industry is the constant need for newness. The churning. You need new music every four months or you’re old. We are touring now for an album that came out in October. I was trying to explain to my dad that that’s considered an ‘old’ album now. I think it’s TikTok that is making our attention spans so short. 

You’re really making a lot of points for me, thank you. 

And in conclusion, I am grateful to be on an old-timey label that takes its time and puts out vinyl and all that stuff. Sub Pop is very not single-focused. They aren’t asking me to get a TikTok hit or anything. 

How’s this tour gone and why’s it taken you so long to tour since Covid?

It’s gone really well, it’s been nice. Cameron came on tour at sort of the last minute because my bandmates ended up not being able to make it on at all, but it’s been working out pretty well. I think it took so long because no one has been making money on tours in the last three years and I had a TikTok hit so maybe I didn’t have to, if I’m being honest. 

How do you feel about it as a whole then? 

The tour?

No, TikTok, the internet, all that stuff. It’s the destruction of society, but it’s also helped to pay a bit of rent. Are you breaking pretty even on it? 

Greta: Oh, totally. I am grateful to TikTok, definitely. 

Cameron: It’s a mixed bag. I think we are going to have to continually navigate these questions of like, ‘how much should my band be doing social media stuff?’

Well your viral song is ‘Fool’, which came out in like 2016? 

Yeah, around then.

Right, so I don’t think it helps to try and aim for a TikTok hit, aye?

Greta: Definitely not. I’m not going to change the way that I- oh hey! 

Friend: Hey! Just wanted to say hey and great show. 

Greta: Thanks so much! We are actually doing an interview right now-

Friend: Oh my god, I’m so sorry! I’ll leave you to it!

Greta: No it’s cool! Thanks for saying hi! 

Does that get strange? Fans and what not?

Oh, we know them. But yeah, it can get strange. 

You don’t strike me as the type of people to pop your collars and be like, ‘yeah, we are celebrities.’

Cameron: I would have a lot of trouble doing that. I don’t know if I know how to do that. 

Greta: We were walking around in the crowd yesterday and this girl was like, ‘you think you’re sly?’ and we were like, ‘what?’ She was like, ‘you think you can be anonymous?’ and we were like, ‘yeah, Alex G is playing right now, I think we are good.’

So you’ve got a new album, you’re on tour; what are the ambitions with Frankie Cosmos moving forward?

Lately I’ve been trying to expand my understanding of what this band can be. This was supposed to be my last tour with my bandmates who’ve been my bandmates for like seven or eight years, but they couldn’t make it. That feels like the end of an era, though, and I’m excited to see where this band can go. I definitely miss touring and playing live, and the fact that this has gone so well and feels good makes me want to do more. We are working on another tour that Cameron is going to come on. I try not to be overly ambitious, or think that I deserve any kind of continued success.

What do you mean?

Every time I make an album, I don’t know if anyone’s going to listen to it. The Pitchfork scores keep getting lower. I don’t expect them to get higher, but I continue to be the most proud of whatever I have made most recently.

And that’s a very healthy relationship to have with your art. How do you balance that with the career element?

The career element of it is about figuring out how to sustain making music. You have to make money from it. The more you can pay your bandmates, the more you can ask them to go on tour. If you can’t pay them, you can’t ask them to leave their day jobs. 

So much of being an artist is figuring out the chicken and egg financials of needing money to tour, but not having money unless you tour.

That’s why it’s always been kind of a rich kid’s game and I’m the first to admit that. 

Do you think you’ve achieved what you set out to with this project?

I think that I’ve gone above and beyond what I wanted to do. I love writing music and playing with my friends, and even if it never became anything, I’d still be writing songs about dogs I meet on the street or whatever. I’m lucky that Frankie Cosmos has gotten to where it has. I never thought I’d be able to play in Jakarta or Australia or Japan, and I’m so grateful for it. If I’ve reached my peak, my cup is full. 

Get to know yourself through the life changing musical experience of Frankie Cosmos, here.